baltimore is a declining city. the population is down by-- >> why the decline? >> it doesn't have to be. there are many reasons. the united states is not in that position. >> why a declining city. >> hold on. >> new york a declining city in the 1970's-- and hold on a second. >> i'll give you reasons, very high taxes, very high crime, a massive welfare state that could not be sustained. that was new york in the 1970's, that's baltimore now. and that's california now. that could be new york state. >> but charlie, the observation you make about california simply isn't true, i mean, it's everything hunky-dory, no, the businesses are flocking here and-- >> no, no, gary k, i want to bring-- i'm going to bring you back into this because the bottom line is, you can sort of try to-- you can nitpick here and there, but i think that-- >> nitpick here and there. >> charlie is on to something. and-- >> picking here and there. >> you look at the highest tax rates in this country and look where the most misery is and welfare dependents are in this country and the places where